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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:13 am
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yea.. im like... wanting to.. i just can't get to the race stone from behind bars...
hopefully i can get out of jail before the racestone is removed.. but im already a vampire.. i just dont have any abilities or what not.. still not up to par with all the info but u do choose blood line correct on the stone?

but umm yea.. if i can get my account unjailed in time ill probably pick the anchient bloodline or what not.. it seems to be the basic for my build or whatever..


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:27 pm 
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um no if ur a vamp your fine, the stone doesnt let u pick a bloodline
you have to find the bloodline master and get him to recruit you


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:51 pm 

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the whole vampire warrior bow thing makes me wish i was human...
who the hell had that idea...

but yea thanks for pointing out the bloodline thing to me
i didn't know how the hell it worked..

[edit: oct 12th]

after loosing a shit ton of blood rock and my stats droped... by going into a bloodline i just wish i made my char human to begin with..
vamps are weak as hell.. lol..
every ability u use makes you hungry needing more blood (which makes since.. constant need for blood) but.. the end result is just shitty..
i may have chosen the wrong bloodline.. but currently im sitting here with teh same skills i had with teh race stone.. only alot of negative stuff to go along with allt eh changes.. like no bow.. and cant use them durring day..
seems to me vampires have been made weaker if anything.. not stronger..

im not really sure the role of a vampire now.. i mean without the bow ur pvp is pretty much done for.. its almost like a for show char..
any polly mage will rape u.. and you cant really hunt..
and as far as the not die thing.... and being able to reanimate... i never really tried to die.. so this to me isnt really helpfull at all.. and even still id rater be rezed by soeoen or hit an ank than wait 5 min whlie im looted bone dry but yea....

and just to put out there
bezerk has always been trash...

count started as a vampire so i guess he will stay that way.. especially since my huge hit i took making him go into a bloodline... it woudl be retarded to change it now... but he will more or less be a char that sits on the shelf.... for show.. like.. "look there is old count croxton".. but at the end of the day utterly usless..


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:33 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:13 am
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after messing around with my vampire and thinking it over i have this conclusion...
vampires have now been made a useless class that auto rez's after 5 min... which id personally rather be a ghost but oh well..

let me explain why i think you have weaked the race to the point of making it useless..
i understand why you took archery away.. otherwise.. there would be no point in being a human warrior.. i guess i could understand this...
but to counter the fact of taking away the archery i dont see enuff given back in return..
the whole concept of bloodlines is a neat idea but in reality its just not working out.. the player leaders and ect should have never been implemented into races.. nor the high cost of joining a bloodline...

prior... to this change.. a warrior had all the "anchient" race skills.. but was in a stone form.. but could then use a bow... and all could use the abilities 24 hours a day...

the removal of the bow in my opinion hasnt been balanced out enuff in order to make the race playable..
u have skills that are only usable durring certain parts of the day.. a high cost to join a bloodline.. and face loosing stats.. and all to make a char that is 10 times weaker than the vampires of the past.. which were then balanced out in pvp to mages and such..
and now u are going to toss on to p of all this.. make them weak to necros...

let me ask you... with all this.. what purpose do u see for a vampire exactly]
in anything.. pvp.. pvm.... watever.. i see nothing..
basicly a class for show.. nostalgia.. "cool to have fangs" maybe type of thing... but thats about it...

id propose that you do more to balance them... if they are indeed goint go be so costly to get bloodlined and ur skills are only usable durring the night.. then the you need to counter that with something like this...
at night vampires get like a +20 bonus to all stats.. that would counter the fact that they could not use a bow.. and have to mele only.. (but even still.. woudlnt help u at day)

also.. after playing with the race skills... i have seen that hunger plays to much of a roll in the skills... the race skill shoudlnt make you hungry..
i understand where u are coming from by doing so.. but by doing this.. u are creating a great weakness in using any of the skills..
especially since the vampire cant eat.. and has to drink blood

basicly i want to see vampires made stronger.. or i see no point for them to be used... and they wont be.. unless something like i stated above is done and they get some MAJOR boost at night.. but this boost would have to be so big that it would create the want to use the char..


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:55 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:12 pm
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I believe the cost is great to become a vampire so that the masters and those who want to become a master (breaking of the line) would help new vampires so they themselves can become stronger.

Hunger - If you are fighting you should always have blood around. Not sure if the timer is the same as heals/cures since I havnt been a player in a long time.

Archery - taken away because rangers are suppose to be range and warriors are suppose to be close. I dont see a problem with that it is a choice you have to make in the build you want to be.

Races always were suppose to have classes. classes always had benefits and drawbacks.

Night/Day are about 10hours a real time each.

And again. Masters should be helping recruit those and help pay costs of new players because they themselves become stronger. I am in no way saying the masters should front the whole bill but they do get benefits from having more under them.


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:13 am
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its a useless race now spar..
thats my point..
there is no purpose for a vampire...

they are weaker now in every aspect of the game than they were prior to this new bloodline shit..

its just my opinin but all vamps should have the same abilities like the other races.. and no bloodlines the concept is a good idea but will be highly unlikely u will ever reach a good balance.. also player activity plays a key role in the race.. which is a problem in itself.. its like trouble just waiting to happen

i just find it that after coming back... i had to acumulate 20something bloodrock ingots... in order to join the bloodline.. once joined.. i lost a shit ton of stats.. which is annother loss.. and once i join the blood line i am not impressed one bit with the abilities..
i did read up on the forums but shit is pretty bleak as to bloodlines in my opinon.. now after looking back at it.. i would have prolly chosen a different bloodline.. anchient is in my opinion probalby the weakest..
invisibitly is really there only usefull skill.. the sant and night sight are handy but nothing to die for..
bezerk is a shit abiltity.. i used it last night just to see what it would do.. i gained no life.. and it made me starving.. :/

the hunger aspect implemeted into the abilities along with their timers is a huge draw back regardless if u will have blood or not durring the fight..
its one more thing to have to keep up with in a pvp system u will already be handicaped in..

looking back i just wish i made count a human.. and didnt loose a shit ton of what i have acumulated since my return
and the stats to go along with it..

which rite now.. after loosing 20something ingots.. and all my stats.. i am still highly considering.....

like i said.. i see vampires on teh game now as just something neat to look at..
but like i said.. at least for a vampire warrior ne ways.. there is no real use for u...
hunting would cost u more than ud gain and pvp is pretty much a non existant aspect of the class now.. and i know about pvp.. and i can tell that there will be no pvp for a vamp warrior.. atleast in teh anchien bloodline..

at the very most u will acomplish is bashing it out with a human or othe vampier warrior for ages befoer someone dies
annoy a mage but not be able to kill him..
adn hopefully not get killed in a wall by a poly mage.. (which is what makes one line in particular the best as i see it)
since u drop archery.. i dont see any other usefull skill besides maybe... stealth to use.. that in combination with ur invis ability may make u anoying.. but you lack the fire power to really do anything in return..

ur not an effective hunter or pvp char.. so why be a warrior vamp.. like i said.. unless u give vampires a huge stat bonus at night then they are a useless class
and on top of it all i read vamps are supposed to be susceptible to necromancy... lol.. wonderfull..

it looks like a huge mess to me.. and a really weak race...


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:03 pm 
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also yes warriors can use a bow with about 50% dmg reduction I think..also think about the ranger class....they cant wear platemail and they also take damage reduction in weaponry....


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:13 am
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id like a refund on my bloodline choice.. lol...


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:05 pm 
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yep i think its pretty shitty that you have to be a bloodline to have racial abilities for a vamp and the price to pay is geared to players who have been active for over a year.


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:11 pm
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Location: Sudbury Ont. Canada
Soon obsidian will be just a bunch of blue chars running around like a bunch of f****** smurfs.


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:48 pm 

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ah and the end result is weak as shit... and only able to be used every so often..
and when used makes u hungry as hell..

vamps have got the shaft on this idc wat anyone says
im taking the consideration of the bow and all that out of this.. i realize the whole point in trying to make chars choose between ranged or mele.. but the only problem with that is.. in order to balance pvp between mages and warriors... the char needs to be able to utilize both.. but besides this... lets squash that cause it is not gonna happen..

besides the loss of the bow on race warriors and ect..
with the vampire you have now a negative on every aspect of the race

before u could eat food.. now u cant
before u had the anchent abilities to begin with.. now u dont..
before you didnt have swear a blood oath to a player char. in order to fulfuill ur race.. now you do...
before you could use the abilities any time of day.. now u cant..

when reading all the vampire info.. bob stated that vampires took this hit because they are such a strong race..
but in reality .. they are a very weak race.. the only thing that ever made them a good race is because it was the only usable warior class to balance pvp with the mages on the system..

i keep hearing that mages are weak compared to warriors atm.. but i blieve this is a combination of bear spamming and wall spamming...

My outlook on pvp here on the shard now has basicly droped down the something i would refer to as.... "Beastmaster inside of an Igloo"

dunno if everyone is familiar with the old movie beastmaster but it was about a warrior that controlled animals.

but ne ways.. pvp never used to be about all walls..
now it is nothing but walls... in what id consider the most balanced stage of obsidians pvp... (pre deadly poison era)
id say 90 percent of my pvp battles were outside of walls with mages...

a warrior must have both ranged and mele options for the simple fact that a good mage.. (im not sure if many still linger) can constantly make u switch between the 2.. if u pull out a mele wep they are on teh move.. if u pull out a bow they get rite next to u with reactive.... reactive is very effective against archery at close range... this was the basis taht vampires were "the" "warrior class".. it was because both wepons was requierd.. but i will not get into that any further..

I never did really go to alot of trouble on mage chars in terms of pvp.. but i cant see a reason that currently you can't own with the class.. now u have a fully unlocked spell book where in the old system you didnt have all the spells able to be used...

if mages are getting owned by archers then id suggest standing there and letting them hit you toe to toe with reactive on..

what this system has created is basicly a mold for a non parry human class.. that wields a big mele wepon and a bow..
and this will be ur mold for pvp as far as warriors are concerend..

i personally never found balanced in the pvp system as long as poisoning as in terms of skill being required was in the mix..
shard was at its most balance when there was only one type only one type of poison.. and it didnt cause a need for skill its purpose was just about fizzling and timeing..

it does seems wepons perform better now than they did.. in the past.. and some weps that were shit now seem to own.. this is all good and well but will probably need some balancing...
i consider some things to do a bit to much dmg.

and on terms of balance.. even tho i have drifted way off subject i might as well address this as well
one key part to the balance in pvp i have always felt was a problem on this shard was teh fact taht wepons were a rarity.. de-rare wepons makes shit easier to balance.. this either resuslts in removal of special weps in their entirety.. and balance the system on what u have left... or make magic wep drops so frequent it isn't a problem for anyone at any time to be doing battle wielding the strongest wepon possible.. this ahs always been a problem in terms of mage vs. warrior pvp..
i like the idea of the luck system but its key flaw is that u get it up really high and first lil creature that attacks u and u kill it.. bam.. u get ruin weps..
only thing i have seen since i have been back is an over flood of low powered shit wepon drops
my suggestion increase teh chance on everything haivng a chance of a drop... and anything having a chance to drop any type (might, power, vang, ect) but of course teh odds woudl be lower for teh drop to be a vanq than a ruin and so on...
either this or once the new smithed wepons are implemented fully into the game... use them as key to balance off of and do away with wep drops entirely..

wepons shodl not be soemthing u hold as a rare trophy.. it should be a used item.. not smoething that is horded and never used because it is a rare.. let snow globes and shit like taht be rare.... let wepons be abundent..

to put it in terms.. it woudl be like me saying... for a mage the only way to get ns was to go kill a boss
that would be retarded... rite..
so why should the warrior..

races in general make balance a hard thing to deal with but with everything i see currently.. i see no cure to balance in sight.. and especially with all the necro's training..
and on top of all the new implements and everything.... how things are held secretive i see as a huge problem to the masses...
u have a few ppl holding a few secrets from the rest of the community.. im not going to get into that tho...
secrets are bad.. lol...
but this shard has always had a select few with special insight on things.. or.. special items... lol...

ne ways.. vampires rite.. umm yea stay on topic adam.. fuk sake
yea there shit.. blahhhhhh =P

balance will be shit...
all will burn.. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:42 pm 

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I agree that races should be tweaked a bit and especially vamps. Master vamps can use there abilities 24 hours a day, and there is suppose to be a way to gain power when being a normal vamp, but as stated there are too many secrets. The sacrifice for becoming a vamp was HUGE, and they are honestly not that great. What I had originally said was to make the warrior class either you use all sorts of weapon( light to heavy) and parrying or Light to medium sized weapons and archery.

But this would cause players to choose races over humans. Make it so only vamps can either options with no penalty if they joni a blood line , because basically they are useless in pvp. OR basically make there powers twice as good as night or make them have an attack bonus of 125% at night soemthing like that. Or a passive ability like blood lust when you make a character bleed you gain 20% extra attack


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:34 pm 

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Just a couple things I think in response to the past 8 or so posts.

Weapons and Luck: Make it so that when you get a drop of ruin it drops your luck rating by 25. Force by 50...vanq by 200, you get my point. This way you do not lose 195 luck on a ruin wep.

Vampires in PvP: Vampire warriors are fine imo...unless you are a ranger class. Ofc someone may be uber good with that clas...but not me. The thing about berserk (I think anyways) is that berserk gives a range of HP returned when used. Instead of being half HP to full HP, according to Count it gives from near 0 to full(I have gotten near full before-but never as low as Count mentioned). Perhaps there should be a minimum return of 50% HP when used. The timer is a long one and the use of that race skill should be worthwhile...in this I agree with Count. As for the hunger thing...that is the trade-off...always has been.

Daytime/Nighttime: I think non-master vamps should have the chance to gain more usage of their skills. As they get older or complete quests they should slowly become 'daywalkers'. Maybe have a big quest for earning the right to become a daywalker. Or once a non-master vamp completes all the vampire quests they can be a daywalker. However it is done, I think they should have a chance to add hours to the skill. Some people sleep during Obsidian night hours.

Strength: I do not get the concept of 'Being stronger' or 'Gaining strength' as a vampire. I am re-assured that indeed it is there, but have my doubts. I have seen no benefit from being a vampire longer than anyone else, completing more quests, or siring new vampires to my bloodline. The timers are the same and I see no change to stats, skillcap or day to day function of my character. I really hope that the concept can be explained to me with a little detail...other than 'it is there'. Even the church makes up a funny story to go along with their God theory. ^^

Cost to oath: VERY expensive. The next person to sire into my line will have to obtain 25 blood ingots. I am guessing that this is so a single master has a restraint upon making vampire armies and so that other master vampires are not left wanting for members to their line. But really...once you get to 25 blood ingots it is getting silly...I hope there is or will be a cap to this. This has cost me alot of time and money and the same goes for people like Croxton. (Heartless gimme my money!)

Testing: I am willing to record results from testing when I have a day off. Anyone interested in doing tests, let me know. There will be two tests I think. One amongst vamps only(Ancients) and the other other players and char-types to test pvp. These tests should help sort out some problems and/or help us form some suggestions for the powers that be to help improve the undead experience while keeping things balanced.

Also, we have to remember that Vampire race is in its infancy and has not been fully tested by a range of players. Give it a try and work with it a bit and we can have a good understanding of all things vampire before we lay too harsh a judgement.


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:42 pm 
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pvp in pre deadly poison era was the best to me as well.....way more fun ...compare to now..


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 Post subject: Re: Vampires
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:43 pm 
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well, want to know a ground breaking secret that you guys were to lazy to realize, and is already implemented?

you can ,,,,,,
hahaha im not going to tell you!

but by doing a bit of research, and or playing around, you maybe become a great vampire warrior / w,e class u want one day...... or night....

lawl, you are not using a KEY feature to vamps, and complaining about how a single blood line is weak... lol

but i think this is due to as mark said, the vampire race is in it's infancy... but testing won't really get you any better character build wise or make you dramatically better, maybe for your actual skills on obsidian, but not ur character.

do i really need to yell out blues clue?


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