well thats good to know. i noticed that verite buckler also has a 9.0 difficulty instead of a 90.0

I made 27 glass bottles from 81 iron ingots, and I went from 25.1 to 25.3 tinkering. (This data set may be a little small for a viable conclusion). However, this data may corroborate Azimuth's conclusion about tinkering gains. These gains seem a little slow for such low tinkering, considering required skill for glass bottles is 21ish, well as the time requirement to mine the ore (I am at 71.0 mining and it took me about an forty minutes to mine 83 iron ore since I get so much colored ore). I believe gains should be rather plentiful until a skill is to 33.3. Is the rate of gains not variable to the total skill, i.e. 0.0-33.3 gains faster than 33.4-66.6, which gains faster than 66.7-100.0?

_________________
I'm not crazy; I'm eccentric!

Alright, since i seem to be the only gm bs posting on here, i thought i'd do some serious blacksmithing. I tested some mytheril and shadow. My original plan was to make 5 complete sets of each, 7 pieces each set for shadow, and 5 pieces for myth (no shield, no helm). So i did that. crafted 5 of each piece in the order in which it came up on the crafting gump.

I did shadow first, which requires a skill of 70.0 to craft.
I will use the letters (S)hoddy, (N)ormal, (E)xpert, (M)aster in the order in which they were crafted.

Gorget- - m m e e e
Gauntlet - - n n e e e
Arms - - e n n e e
Legs - - n n n e n
Chest - - n n n n e
Closed Helm - - n e n n e
buckler - - m m m m m (the reason i chose buckler is the difficulty was 6.0 instead of the 70.0 found on all others, and it was the least amount of ingots. So this buckler difficulty i have seen consistently thru the colored metal tho i am not sure about the ones that i havent made.)

So out of 30 pieces at a 70.0 skill required i made 2 GM items .
A perfect 5 for 5 on the 6.0 item. Doesnt really feel like a victory tho.

So on to myth with 80.0 skill required, 5 pieces of 5 items.

Gorget - - n e e e e
Gauntlets - - e e n n n
Arms - - e e e n n
Legs - - e n n n n
Chest - - n n n n n

any one else see a pattern. The more ingots used the less chance of a higher quality item. Check above if you dont believe me.

So besides that. Not one GM item. Further more, not one gm chest plate, or expert for that matter. All normal.

That was my plan. I did it. but wasnt happy with the results. i figured, lets give this a thorough test. Let's really find out what is goin on here. So i gathered a few resources, and i made 25 complete mytheril plate suits (now thats 5 pieces each set we discussed earlier, you remember that right, of course you do, good good.) OK and it went like this.

80.0 skill requirement, 25 pieces each item. 5 items

gorget M , E, and then the pattern went something like this for the next 123 items
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

i think you get the picture.

and then like an idiot, thinking, man, i can get 1 expert made chest piece, and i made 5 more, all normal.

and even more like an idiot, i went and made 10 shadow plate chests, got real lucky, all of them ended up being expert, and on the 7th one, i'm watching the screen and my journal as the words scroll across 'you work like a master' or something to that effect, i just know there are 5 different adjectives: fumble, clumsy, adept, expert, master... anywho, and it says master 4 times, i'm like sweet, my first gm chest plate. NOPE. F YOU SMITTY!!!! expert. soooo.... thats not the only time that happened either. so thats it, thats all i got written down and ya'll have a blessed day

ps

Im Smitty, and i just got back from about 8 months off. So any one i haven't said hi too, its not cuz i dont like you, i just been busy adjusting to everything and organizing.

PEACE

Alright, well the system looks to be working about as i intended, values are comming about right.


So my next question to you all.
How rare do you want masterwork items to be?
Do you want it to just be a real common thing that's gonna be expected on all items? or an actual achievement? Or something in the middle?

For example, say you're gm.
Out of 100 items, how many do YOU think should be GM quality(standard make, not aborting shoddy first swings/etc) if the required skill is:
100.0
90.0
80.0
70.0
60.0
50.0

that depends on what we are making.
A GM should always make master iron work, no matter what.
A GM should have between 10 and 20% chance to make the highest end armor master work.
Everything else should fall in between respectfully.
Just my thoughts on it.

i think it depends on if the master work armor gives better ar or not. or does a master crafted g heal give you more health? if that is the case then i say azimuth is right. but if not then i say most ppl arent going to go a collect them for any reason.

Any craftsman, or artist will put there mark on any of there work. That way other see their work, so pl know who to see to get that fine peice of armor. so if no beneifit ar wise then i say maybe there should be 2 different messages:

-myth armor crafted by smitty

-master crafted myth armor crafted by smitty

or if you cant craft a good peice very often allow for us to smelt any materail back to ingots at say a 25 percent loss of ingots?

_________________
Falin(ROT)-Bully
Galen Soulhunter(Deamons)-Money maker
Cutler-Worker Bee
Hook(Daemons)-Mild mannered reporter/Tamer
Mr.Obvious-SUPER Crafter

i like the 20% for hardest craft will be gm. but then there should be a 20% fail rate as well. iron should always be gm for iron.

so i agree with azimuth, but when making over 200 items as a gm, shouldn't you get at least one gm set of armor out of that. i made 30 of each item of myth and only got 3 expert items i think, thats not very good at all. and they were stupid things like gorgets or gloves. not a chest piece or legs, which take the most damage so thats where the extra durability is needed.

and did you look into the whole pattern about the more ingots needed the quality goes down. thats not right either. all in all bob, i think you are doing a great job. i know it seems like complaining, but pre-patch, i crafted rose, blackrock and bloodrock heater shields. 1 out of 3 was gm, and that seems like it was relatively fair, but if you can never make a gm shadow set of armor, how are we gonna be encouraged to put all that time in to mining and blacksmithing, knowing that you're not gonna fail, but not gonna be awesome either. nobody wants to be mediocre, and thats what my blacksmith is, but he;s a gm, thats not mediocre, thats the best of the best. so the best should be able to craft the best.

the blacksmithing system, imo, wasnt broken before the patch, there may have been a few things that weren't quite right, but nothings perfect. but now, i dont even want to make anything. the old addage is, if it ain't broke dont fix it. i like the way blacksmithing percentages were before the patch, fail some, gm some, make some normal. never fail=never gm= VERY VERY UNREWARDING

agreed

_________________
Falin(ROT)-Bully
Galen Soulhunter(Deamons)-Money maker
Cutler-Worker Bee
Hook(Daemons)-Mild mannered reporter/Tamer
Mr.Obvious-SUPER Crafter

Yeah I think it sucks how low the chance is of GM now. I think at GM u should have a really high chance to GM it. You would have to have SOOOOO much rose, blood and black rock to try and get a full GM set. I think a GM set should be made more easy otherwise whats the point of being GM.

never is a long time, how are you gonna make rose, black/bloodrock gm if you cant even make mytheril gm

It's impossible to make any high end armor (rose and above) GM..... seriously..... mathematically you have a negative % chance to make high end armer master crafted.

Bob could give someone an infinite amount of blood ore and no one would ever be able to make any part master quality....and I would highly doubt that even some part as expert would ever be seen. It's not even worth trying to get the ore, much less test with anything good.

I very much hope this is fixed.

Azimuth, you are assuming the probability function is linear, which it may not be.

_________________
I'm not crazy; I'm eccentric!

This is true, but even if it's nonlinear the bell curve would have to go almost straight up from shadow to be remotely acceptable. Even that would still leave us far from being able to obtain the % of GM armor that we were able to make under the old system, or any other system used on other shards.

The last 7 posts were completely worthless.
It is as if none of you bothered reading my post at all, and just felt like posting to bitch.

You don't like the current system, big woop de do. You already got your point across.
However outside of bitching, you're giving me no useful information.
I asked for something pretty damn specific, and yet only 1 person has bothered trying to give me an answer, and that was in a PM.


I repeat my earlier question, and this time pay attention or just don't bother posting.
If you are a GM smith, if you make 100 sets of armor, that require the following % to craft, how many would you expect to GM:
100.0 minimum skill -
90.0 minimum skill -
80.0 minimum skill -
70.0 minimum skill -
60.0 minimum skill -
50.0 minimum skill -

If you are a GM in the skill

100.0 minimum skill - 33.3
90.0 minimum skill - 44.4
80.0 minimum skill - 55.5
70.0 minimum skill - 66.6
60.0 minimum skill - 77.7
50.0 minimum skill - 88.8

and i know at the moment there are no fails, but was thinking, if there are fails, why do we lose all the material, does it just vanish? i understand that some of it would get ruined, but all? and what about if we make a shoddy piece, nobody is gonna want it cuz its shoddy, and wouldnt a normal bs smelt it down and make it back into ingots. ots - my cousin is a machinist, and he even sells the shavings he drills off of titanium to sell back to the metal guys. and maybe even have it if you work like a master, maybe it takes a percentage less ingots to craft said item, clumsy/fumble, possibly more.... w/e. so ya, thats the percentage for gm bob, thats fair imo, but who knows. guess you do ha ha