In the recent changelog, I see that taxes are coming back.

I suggest that taxes be re-introduced at a reduced rate of what they once were. I guess the reasons for this would be that some people aren't looting as much and others just aren't playing as much while things get finished up.

Anyone agree? What do think would be reasonable for a new rate? Like half of what we were paying?

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Ultima avatar: The Famed JIZABOZ,GWAR Guildmeister

Dirt cheap this is a recession. Loot is weak. I am against any taxation without representation I demand tweaking loot to double the amount of gold dropped currently. Once that is done then I can agree to any taxes.

PS I wanted to state that GM Bob is doing a great job putting work into the shard and the new changes are great. Just give us more gold to loot.

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Scathach of Skye - Pure Ranger

ya seeing as loot was cut in half.. i think house tax should be cut by 1/4th what they were b4 the gold wipe and rebalancing the loot tables...

for the lesser houses... I think they should be the same.. or a bit more ... 5k a month is cheap even today lol
annnd i know t1a and t2a prolly never existed stfu...


orrrr i think the players should decide on what houses need what exact tax or w.e

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king of the run on sentence.

or make a jackpot system with npcs that maybe corresponds with the Luck system and that if you kill the monster it will drop one hundred times the gold according to the number your luck was. Like 100 luck = 10k gold..170 luck = 17k

5k on a small house is like 10% tax...thats insane drop it to like 2k for a small house.

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Scathach of Skye - Pure Ranger

Just gonna throw this out there:

Go hunt for an hour, a dedicated hour.
See how much gold you bring in.

You'll find gold isn't nearly as bad as you think.

I say this because i've been wathcing how much different people have been making/hr in monster kills.
In fact let me run an average real fast from the database(i actually haven't done this in months):

+------------+-------------------------+
| difficulty | avg(gold/(duration/10)) |
+------------+-------------------------+
| 1 | 4.75710740
| 2 | 8.74263789
| 3 | 15.77012840
| 4 | 24.81050778
| 5 | 82.83016499
| 6 | 3561.41555600
| 7 | 26.77630909
| 8 | 11.94196667
+------------+-------------------------+

Duration is how long the fight lasts in 10ths of a second.
So as you can see, even the lowest level of monster is still yielding on average almost 5 gold/sec, which comes out to 18k/hr. If you fight harder things, you end up with almost 90k/hr at difficulty 4.

Keep in mind this is ONLY gold, not any other loot the monster drops or magic weapons, or reagents.

I do not find it at all unreasonable that taxes take an hour or few of your hunting time on a monthly basis. And given that even the most basic monsters average to 18k an hour...

ummm 90k an hour...... get real lol numbers dont always paint the full picture...

unless i am just horible as F at hunting lol... alsooo give time for run between monsters and looting

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king of the run on sentence.

90k an hour seems alot lol i usualy only make around 30k an hour but than again i suck at hunting lol and my necro slow at killing.

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Sorry i apparently forgot to include a bit of common sense in the last post to help people understand the numbers.

very few people solo higher monsters.
so that 90k/hr is usually between 2 people.

so you're talking 45k gold/hr per person if they just hunted difficulty 4s, plus weapon drops which equate to quite a bit themselves.

Even if we go by chips example and say you can solo for 30k an hour.
that means the 5k taxes on a small house will take roughly 10 minutes of your time.
And lets say each of your characters only has 1 small house.
That means you spend 1 hour a month and your taxes are paid with 5k left over.

well gold loot was dropped by like 40% i beleive originally but then it got jaced up from there awhile ago. its not that bad

and on my poly in destard, i can make around 30k an hour solo. that 45k is skewed by other factors too. your chart only counts the actual time fighting and not the time involved in healing and looting after fight, finding the next monster, and if you were fighting high end monsters, 80% of the time there are lvl 1-3 monsters in between that skew results also. i hunt alot so i dont care about taxes much, but i know shiva and i took our polys to destard once and ransacked the place, over and over for an hour and a half, and we got around 71k i beleive to buy our daemons guildhouse. and we owned that dungeon fast and furuois. that is the best hunt ive bennn on for 2 ppl gold wise ever. and we were well behind 90k together and that was longer time too.
im guessing since the gold is like 15-25% less than it was in t3a it should prolly go down a little bit, but you can always raise the price of the houses to compensate if needed.

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Falin(ROT)-Bully
Galen Soulhunter(Deamons)-Money maker
Cutler-Worker Bee
Hook(Daemons)-Mild mannered reporter/Tamer
Mr.Obvious-SUPER Crafter

lol i think it got jacked up by alot i seem to get gold alot easyer than before. Monsters seem to be way weaker than before aswell

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I need to know where you can make 25k solo as a warrior in a hour pm me the spots. I know I dont make 5k in ten minutes . You carry alot weight as a warrior with pots and bandies alone which limits loot in a timely manner etc.

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Scathach of Skye - Pure Ranger

Your saying your not including weapon drops, but I don't see enough players to even consider selling weapons. I have a GM Miner, Blacksmith, and Alchemist and no one is buying any of the supplies I make.

Until the shard see's more players, the taxes should be low as hell. I only play this game when I am extremely bored and have nothing better to do, thus the only reason I play is the hope that more players will come soon.

So the only reason I would pay taxes is to wait untill more players come.


Once more players come I don't care if you bump the taxes up from what they were in t3a.

Also I sacrificed my pvm mage and turned him into a tank, now the shard has no players for me to use him and now I'm f*****, now I have to re-train meditation, drop swordsmanship, and all the other bullshit that comes with that. Training isn't fun when there are 2 players on.

you need to take into account expenses, like bandies,regs, armor, weapons,

I have about 1.75 million worth of property. That is 175k per month at 10%.

Ok, taxes are good and all, but taxes are also implemented to serve a purpose. At this point, there is no real purpose to add taxes. We all know that taxes irl are to help pave roads, water lines etc. This is not the real world. On a server like this, there are several reasons why there should be taxes:
1- Keep housing space available for more players instead of people like me taking all the prime real estate
2- Avoid an excess of decayed houses by using taxes as a deterrent
3- Taxes force players to play more to pay them
4- Taxes could be collected, counted and used as prizes or contribute to an in game lottery system for those who paid them
--Just a suggestion

These are all great reasons to HAVE taxes...when the game has a sustainable player base.
At this point, that is not what we have. Let us further examine points 1 to 3:
1- More space is not needed for new players because there are none
2- Once houses decay due to inactivity they should be deleted before taxes are implemented...although taxes should be implemented when the player base recovers and new players are being recruited on a more regular basis.
3- At this point taxes on housing may entice players to come back and hunt a bit....for a while. This will soon change to having to work on an empty server with no fun to pay for taxes. This will probably push people to question if being taxes for lack of fun is worth their time. Then it becomes a stay or quit situation that I am sure everyone would rather avoid.

So, what I would suggest, in my humblest opinion is this:
A- Implement any vital patches that are left
B- Mass mail everyone on the forums giving an update and a link tot he change logs and the download link
C- Recruit using the top 100 list and a recruitment drive that would reward the player who refers the most new players
D- Fully staff the game with player GMs etc. PAY THEM with ingame gold to their player accounts. The more events, the more pay they get. Simple as that. Add in performance reviews to keep them honest and effective.
E- Add taxes now.
F- Work on major team/guild quests and other cool things that will keep players logged on.

So what I am saying is that adding taxes too early can be shooting ourselves in the foot. While taxes are a vital part of our game, they are not going to help in the short term.

Sorry, it was a long post.