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| Some ideas of mine http://www.dxgaming.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19905 |
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| Author: | Azimuth [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
The exact scripts from the old PvP system can never be implemented into this new server version....there not compatible, they can only be rewritten. Ok...I don't know if this will help, but I'll try and explain.....I have not had coffee yet, so this might not make much sence. The server actually runs off a client, and the client is a fully compiled hard coded bit of software that can't be changed directly. Healing, damage, magic, timers, everything....has a hard coded value within the client. For us to change anything we need to run scripts that (for lack of a better word) "intercepts" the hard coded information and subs in the new scripted information. Keep in mind that unless there is a script running that overwrites the hard code, your using default values. Bob has the old scripts, he knows what the old numbers are supposed to be, the problem is that the old client and the new one have very different hard coded values which is a HUGE unknown. He knows how an individual system is theoretically supposed to work, but without being able to compare hard coded client values it's almost imposable to copy the old system exactly. He's changing things slowly, and fixing things that were just plain broken in the old system, but a lot of it has to be biased player input. |
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| Author: | _Iori_ [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
i understand all that azi, now what i dont understand is WHY if bob dont have time to make new code, fix stuff and such .... they try to FIX ALL at the same time, instand of doing it step by step... the frustration part is that this is taking toooooooooooooo much time lol and we r not even at 50 % probably in what 1 yrs and some months |
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| Author: | chips LL [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
oh wow thanks azi. and iori... did u just suggest he just fix everythign at once? stupid request...... dismissed anyway, azi im sure theres a good reason, but im guessing a good amount of the things in t3a, were over scripted from the hard code, why not take all of those things, make changes (making it compatible with t4a) then bam you have more then we have, exactly like it was b4,? like i said i dun really get it that much on that leave so im pretty sure theres a answer to that.. 
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| Author: | nerdslayer [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
So it can be done then. Like i said before, everyone enjoyed the old system much more, perhaps its worth the difficulty and wait? I think there should be a player vote on this. Bob i know that would be asking a lot from you but it would be much more skill based and enjoyable then the system currently in place and I think would mean a lot more success in regaining this shards player base. |
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| Author: | _Iori_ [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
HELL NO CHIPS i neva say that i say Quote: they try to FIX ALL at the same time, instand of doing it step by step...
what i say was that instand of trying to change all at the same time, should be nice if they do it the crafting patch first then move to the murder patch etc... not just trying to make all the patchs at once
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| Author: | Azimuth [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
Quote:
anyway, azi im sure theres a good reason, but im guessing a good amount of the things in t3a, were over scripted from the hard code,
because each system in this game relies on countless other systems. How the systems interact with each other and the randomness of events are mostly handled by hard code, and plays heavily into the overall "feel" of the game. That hard code from t3a was a lot different (not to mention inherently more unstable and buggy) from the hard code of t4a, so even if the scripts were written identical they would each behave much different in their respective clients.why not take all of those things, make changes (making it compatible with t4a) then bam you have more then we have, exactly like it was b4,? I'm guessing that this was done initially, and most likely completed long before t4a came online...we see how that worked out.......bob only has player input to go on in order to make things as close to the old system as possible. |
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| Author: | Popcorn [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
and most of us can not give Bob the needed information that he truly needs at some points. so it either means that he needs to figure it out himself, or he does a simple trial and error. as long as we can give him reliable input, numbers, and information...than Bob can easily gets t4a working as close to and better than it was in t3a. until then it seems that all he can do is try things, if they work then alright, if it doesnt, than changes need to be made until it works. |
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| Author: | chips LL [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
thanks azi! ur a big help... mammoth.... i dun get the point of ur last post..... what was it supposed to achieve? iori... SORRY! i thought you meant the exact opposite lol, and i beilieve he is doing whatr you said already... note alot of small changes, updates in change log... if you ment like bring the crafting patch so it's implemented in stages, EG.as he fixes one thing just add it right in like one of the updates in change log, and the patch comes in time, with many updates instead of one big SHABAMM . this would prevent bob from being bombarded with 'hey lookie bug posts' and would ease all over time, this would most likely save tons of time, and keep players alot happier as they see the progress virtually real time ... hope i used the word virtually correct but you guys get the point? do people agree or disagree with me? |
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| Author: | _Iori_ [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
agree... and that should me things easy for him in matters of time spend in coding ALL at the same time and players will have more time to check the update and comment about it so bob can fixed in the next stage and so on |
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| Author: | Popcorn [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
idk Sub after reading my post again even im confused of what it means. just goes to show you that typing a post while watching The Web Soup on G4 is not a good idea 
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| Author: | Azimuth [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
I see what you guys are saying about doing things a little at a time, and I kind of agree, but at the same time I see why bob is waiting on it. Consider this: Bob makes some new craftable item that requires 2 GM skills to make. This new item interacts with a ton of systems while it's being made, and even more systems after it's made and in the game world. If there's even one bug involved with making an item like this, it would basically cripple 2 skills until it's fixed.....and this one item along with the skills required to make it is not something that can be done a little at a time...it must be done all at once. Lets say that above example uses carpentry and blacksmith skills...... Now....lets say we have a different new item. This one uses blacksmith and tailor skills....lets say the process involved with making this item is buggy as hell...well....I'm sure you can see the problem.....now we would have 3 crippled skills. It can go on like this for a long while. This is my guess why the crafting patch has taken so long, and it's also my guess as to why it's unpractical to roll the patch out a little at a time. |
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| Author: | GMBob [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
I'm glad you all got this thread back on track, i wasn't going to touch it because i was curious if it would take care of itself. Thanks to those who have tried to post things that i have to post in response to these questions that are asked over and over again, and most of it was right, but let me clarify a few things so everyone's on the same page. There is nothing to date that has been suggested anywhere in the forums that i can't make happen. Yes there is "hardcoded" stuff that happens, but i can easily overwrite most of it. In other words, I can put things back to how it was in t3a. Now before people say DO IT, here is WHY things are different now: In t3a, there was lots of hardcoded behavior for combat(formulas for damage, hitting, armor reduction, etc). No one knows what these formulas are, because they are hardcoded. They exist in binary form(machine code, 1s and 0s, no source code available). In t4a, a lot of these hardcoded formulas changed, as well as how a lot of other things interacted. As time goes on, i'm softcoding(scripting) things that overwrite the hardcoded behavior and put things back the way they were. I didn't "change" a bunch of stuff in the t4a upgrade. Things changed out of neccessity from the upgrade, and i'm working on changing most of them back. The thing is, that takes time. It takes time to find what changed, how it changed, what it used to be, and to fix it. Most of the stuff is pretty easy to fix and figure, but complex formulas like the old combat ones are very hard since they deal with 10+ variables at once, and the only way i can figure them out is literally by running dozens of robots on a t3a server and gathering data and tweaking it to my best guess of what the formula is. So in summary: No one knows the formulas for most parts of t3a combat. As I figure them out, i put them in to t4a in patches. If someone wants to help figure them out, be my guest. If you have suggestions like (armor does too much reductino, or armor isn't working right in situation x, and works right in situation y, maybe a bug exists in situation x) then that's useful. But if your complaint is just "it's different, put it back", then you're saying something pointless, because as it stands right now its not gonna happen till i figure out what it USED to be. Hope that covered the pvp changes. Now, on to the crafting patch. Thanks for the votes of complexity, but really it boils down to 3 things. 1. ALL the planning for the crafting patch was done before i announced the patch. All the balance, structures, etc was done then. This means that its not a mater of figuring out complex balance, etc. 2. Most of the code is done already, the system is around 70% done. 3. To resume working on the crafting patch, it takes around 1-2 hours of setup time per instance. Meaning everytime i sit down to work on the patch, if i get 3 hours of work done, i only get at most 2 hours of actual work done, and it's closer to probably 1 or 1.5. Contrast this to most patches where the setup time can be measured in minutes, and you can see why i've been putting off this patch, in favor of getting more useful patches done, since all my available time has been in 2-3 hour segments at most, and usually less. If i have a full 8 hour day available, i will work on the crafting patch. But as long as i'm stuck doing these 1-2 hour patching timeslots, i'm hesistant to try working on it and would rather focus on things that show more results. |
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| Author: | chips LL [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
:O |
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| Author: | Popcorn [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some ideas of mine |
Quote: :O
yes Sub, i did the same thing when i read Bob's post 
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