DX Gaming :: Rule #23

23. Players may not confine npcs that were never originally tamed in ANY fashion. This includes player houses, static parts of the world like npc houses in towns, or with items. This locks up spawns, and will be dealt with harshly.
23b.Players may not confine npcs for the sole purpose of raising their taming skills without risk.
23c.Absolutely NO animals may be confined in NPC houses or Static houses.
23d.Players may keep animals in their own houses and land, provided they were tamed originally. If you plan on keeping a rarer animal, such as mustang or oytra, you are required to rename it so that if it goes wild it will have proof of being tamed.
23e. Players guilty of trapping untamed animals are subject to possible fines, the animal being killed or removed, and jail time.

23b.Players may not confine npcs for the sole purpose of raising their taming skills without risk.

23c.Absolutely NO animals may be confined in NPC houses or Static houses.

23d.Players may keep animals in their own houses and land, provided they were tamed originally. If you plan on keeping a rarer animal, such as mustang or oytra, you are required to rename it so that if it goes wild it will have proof of being tamed.

23e. Players guilty of trapping untamed animals are subject to possible fines, the animal being killed or removed, and jail time.

Wow cv does that mean we can abide by the rules untill u decide to disappear or is that full time.

Locking down an npc with items is NEVER acceptible that I agree with as well.

Quote:
23b.Players may not confine npcs for the sole purpose of raising their taming skills without risk.

I disagree with this completely.

I'm sorry guys but i think GM's should go back to enforcing the rules that admins put out, not try to make up there own or twist the meanings of existing rules to serve there purpose.

I think the fact you try to say we can't tame in "static" housing is rediclous, when as CV says, quite a big amount of NPC's spawn in static housing...

Some staff need to relax a bit, cos they are going to the point of making taming one of the *WORST* skills on the shard, when it's easily one of the most fun skills.

Author:	CyberVic [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Rule #23
Quote: 23. Players may not confine npcs that were never originally tamed in ANY fashion. This includes player houses, static parts of the world like npc houses in towns, or with items. This locks up spawns, and will be dealt with harshly. 23b.Players may not confine npcs for the sole purpose of raising their taming skills without risk. 23c.Absolutely NO animals may be confined in NPC houses or Static houses. 23d.Players may keep animals in their own houses and land, provided they were tamed originally. If you plan on keeping a rarer animal, such as mustang or oytra, you are required to rename it so that if it goes wild it will have proof of being tamed. 23e. Players guilty of trapping untamed animals are subject to possible fines, the animal being killed or removed, and jail time. This rule is in review. Some how when the new rules were given to me I skimmed over this rule change and didn't notice it. Don't ask me how I missed it, I guess I paid attention to the real meat and potatoes the stuff affecting all the AFK macroing and real issues on the shard not some stupid taming rule. As you all know taming is something I'm passionate about and something that I did as a player and loved and I have a fond place in my heart for those who are tamers and make that their choice of playstyle. I have discussed this with BB before I even knew this rule was being modified and both of us disagree with some of the rule changes here. We will get some coordination and clarification on this and get back to you all. Personally if I'm not good with rule writing so I'll just put in my two cents on what I think is wrong with these rule changes: Quote: 23. Players may not confine npcs that were never originally tamed in ANY fashion. This includes player houses, static parts of the world like npc houses in towns, or with items. This locks up spawns, and will be dealt with harshly. I disagree with most of this. A. some animals are spawned in "static" buildings. I know I put those spawns there years and years ago. B. it's acceptible to herd and use herding only to lead an animal into public or private housing for the purpose of taming it yourself right there (no moving a mustang into your house to lock it up for someone else to tame it later, that's not acceptible). Locking down an npc with items is NEVER acceptible that I agree with as well. Quote: 23b.Players may not confine npcs for the sole purpose of raising their taming skills without risk. I disagree with this completely. A tamer should be allowed to tame especially dangerous animals in a safe location. This is the KEY PURPOSE of herding and why have that skill if you can't use it where appropriate. Quote: 23c.Absolutely NO animals may be confined in NPC houses or Static houses. Huh? Even tamed ones? This whole rule makes no sense and contradicts ummm 23d. Quote: 23d.Players may keep animals in their own houses and land, provided they were tamed originally. If you plan on keeping a rarer animal, such as mustang or oytra, you are required to rename it so that if it goes wild it will have proof of being tamed. I agree with this completely though I didn't realize it needed to be stated but since people now thing the rules are all inclusive I guess for some retarded reason we have to state everything. The rules on obsidian were origianlly a guide and weren't supposed to be all inclusive. Now apprently they have become that because rule breaks say if it's not in the rules then it's ok. Quote: 23e. Players guilty of trapping untamed animals are subject to possible fines, the animal being killed or removed, and jail time. If you find an untamed mustang in a house and noone is trying to actively tame it, hell yeah I'd .remove it right then and there. But if someone is simply taming in a safe location thanks to herding they shouldn't be penalized. Since we're being all inclusive I should remember to state that using pathing exploits to tame particularly dangerous animals is against the rules. Likewise noone should be afking macroing with 9 bears in a building and cycling through them to afk macro from 50 to 85 in a day. This is unacceptible. I don't think it should be stated here because they are not a "taming" rules but rather just reminders about exploiting and afk macroing. Overall I think a lot of these rules try to resolve issues with AFK macroers and exploiters as they are intended to do, but unfortunately they also hurt the general player base who are just trying to play the game. Furthermore I believe the majority of the whiners and complainers on this issue are those who have been taking advantage of the system and not taming "as designed". In conclustion I love our GM's and what they were tryign to do with these rule changes but I must overturn some of them based on what Iv'e said here. Again I'm not good at writing rules so someone please put what I've said more eliquently. Also for those who have been punks to our good GM's about this you all can rott in hell. They were trying to fix problems and yes good honest people were caught in the crossfire, but it's the exploiters who bashed our GM's. Thank you all for your time. Now I must get back to schoolwork.

Author:	Dracula [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:
What do you mean dangerous animals? Ive seen you say that a few times. We were possibly gonna be able to tame monsters but last i heard yall never implemented that..

Author:	Von_Ogre [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:
The only dangerous animals that I know of that are tameable are the panthers, dire wolves and white wolves... that'd be cool if they implemented monster taming... it'd make a tamer with a wyrm or two a force to be reconed with

Author:	limski [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:	wow
Wow cv does that mean we can abide by the rules untill u decide to disappear or is that full time.

Author:	Blinkers [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: wow
Quote: Wow cv does that mean we can abide by the rules untill u decide to disappear or is that full time. No the rules will be updated to include the changes to 23, I wasn't completely sure about 23 when I reviewed the rules, but I haven't played in 6+ years so I wasn't in a position to recommend anything different, since I honestly don't know what would be best for a tamer.

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Rule #23 http://www.dxgaming.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16545	Page 1 of 4

Author:	Emo [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:52 am ]
Post subject:
CyberVic, as always, knows damn well what he is talking about when it comes to spawns and taming, he's always had that dead right IMO.. I think the fact you try to say we can't tame in "static" housing is rediclous, when as CV says, quite a big amount of NPC's spawn in static housing... Some staff need to relax a bit, cos they are going to the point of making taming one of the WORST skills on the shard, when it's easily one of the most fun skills.

Author:	a Player [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:28 am ]
Post subject:
23 means, that PLAYERS can't confine the animal. nothing about it being spawned there. hard to prove, but semantics are a bitch as all staff find out. maybe you should consider the word "confine" as leaving it there, when you arent trying to tame it. 23c means, no gating stolen animal to a random vendor shop in occlo, or a empty house in sherwood. also, since you said that you have spawned some animals in static houses, perhaps this should be only for renamed animals. 23d means, you can keep renamed animals in your house/land. they do not contradict one another, if anything, they reinforce the other. one says what isn't allowed, one says what is. although, you did make a curious statement that maybe you can clear up... it seems to be contradictory to me... Quote: Locking down an npc with items is NEVER acceptible that I agree with as well. Quote: 23b.Players may not confine npcs for the sole purpose of raising their taming skills without risk. I disagree with this completely. again, this goes back to my wanting a definition of what you consider "confine." it could be by items, by a room, by other tamed animals, or by whether or not a person is standing around. also, how do you disagree with using items and agree with using a room? it seems to be the same outcome with two different paths... neither is especially easier or harder than the other... hope this wasn't too messy, i'm too lazy to clean it up.

Author:	CyberVic [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:08 am ]
Post subject:
Maybe the term "confine" needs to be clarified. And yes some recent upgrades to certain DLL's on the shard has allowed us some flexability in coding. Some of the things we will be doing is A. removing the need for the taming stone and B. possibly coding monster taming. No promise on when that will be. Right now I've got a lot of changes going on in my life but I did tell BB that section of code I want to dive into.

Author:	belgarion [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:14 am ]
Post subject:
Taming in static houses is the only way to train taming in my opinion. It would take you dbl the amount of time to GM taming if you had to just walk around and tame stuff. Taming polar bears would no longer be feesible as you would die on Ice Isle more than you actually tamed. Imho i think whoever was councilling Blinkers on the re-write was trying to pull a fast one here. There is no doubt in my mind that the rules were rewritten to contradict a ruling that CV had already made on the issue. I'm sorry guys but i think GM's should go back to enforcing the rules that admins put out, not try to make up there own or twist the meanings of existing rules to serve there purpose. On another note i would just like to ask CV for clarification. When you talk about having 10 - 15 bears in a static house to train taming, is this illegal or only illegal if done AFK?

Author:	CyberVic [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:18 am ]
Post subject:
Well I guess if you were sitting there taming, releasing, taming, releasing macroing taming then yes I think you might be exploiting a bug. You aren't supposed to be able to gain skill on an animal you've previously tamed. Now I believe your character only has memory of the last X many animals you've tamed so maybe if you sat there with 15 animals and cycled through them you could exploit this "memory limitation" we've put on the system and be takign advantage of the fact the code has limits. With taming yes you are supposed to run around taming. That's the idea. I've heard about people who were bragging they went from 50 to 85 taming in a day. That's complete bullshit and obviously there's something screwy goign on there. Back in the day in Original UO it took me 6 months to get to GM taming and that was the 2nd skill I GM'ed, right behind herding. I was a tamer by profession and that's how I hunted. I think I eventually picked up archery too, but that's it as far as combat skills.

Author:	CyberVic [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:25 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I'm sorry guys but i think GM's should go back to enforcing the rules that admins put out, not try to make up there own or twist the meanings of existing rules to serve there purpose. Make another comment like this and I'll smack you so hard your mother will feel it. I'm in daily contact with my GM's. I think we mostly have a case of poor wording here and the rules just need to be clarified. Bob who I've known for a long long time had a misunderstanding of the term AI abuse. Which he had a discussion with BB on the same subject recently and maybe he took it out of context. We had a long discussion that animal don't have hands, they are coded that way on purpose. You're supposed to be able to keep them in a house or room simply by closing a door, they don't know how to use doors. So really imo the way I coded animals this was done on purpose. If I really didn't want animals to be able to be locked in a static house w/o a locked door I would have given them hands, or given them the etheral property (what allows ghosts to walk through doors). I also have control over whether they "fly" or not, which allows them to move over low lying Z order items. Locking down things with items, now that's AI abuse because I don't feel that everything should be given "flying" but not everything picks up random trash either. So now that we're more on the same page the rule will be revised and clarified.

Author:	belgarion [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:26 am ]
Post subject:
I have been a GM tamer for a while now so maybe it has changed but the way i GMed it was to first tame 10 - 15 polar/ grizzlies the regular way. Then lock them in static housing and release. But then i would have to leave them until the next day to tame again. When i went back the next day i would tame them all again and have to wait till the next day/ later that day to tame them again. I didn't think i ws exploiting any bug nor was i told that i was by the GM's that came to check that i was not AFK. So what I would like to know is if it is done the way i explained as long as you are not afk or abusing any bug is it legal?

Author:	CyberVic [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:31 am ]
Post subject:
Hmmmmm... I guess that's the poor man's way of taming. In theory if you had a large house you could tame those 10-15 bears, release them in your house and they would be protected. The next day tame them again. The fact that you are taming and releasing in a public building instead of a house you paid for is you have no garuntee of them still being safely there when you return. Someone could come along and have a hay day killign them. (good meat) I believe we coded it so the "memory" of the person that tamed the animal was only like 24 hours or something. I will have to double check with BB on his idea of this on whether even after 24 hours should a tamer be able to retame an animal for skill. Maybe we can give it a longer timer. I'm not sure... So yeah for now I would concider what you are doing the way you describe it as ok. You guys gotta understand that alot of the rules have a deeper "meaning" behind them. BB and I have a lot of ideas and concepts on the overall game "design" of why things are the way they are and why the rules are the way they are. Sometimes when the GM's are ASKED by us to go over the rules and make revisions due to exploits sometimes they are made or worded in a way that conflicts with BB and my vision of the overall game design. Sometimes things get out of sync and need to be revised a 2nd time. This is just one of those cases. Especially because I'm so passionate about tamind.

Author:	belgarion [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:36 am ]
Post subject:
I could do it your way but im too lazy to herd them in and out of my house all the time. Ikniw there is no guarentee they will still be there whenyou go back they could be killed or even tamed and shrunk, which was the case with the grizzlies most of the time, but if you hide them real well it they usually stay there for a while anyway. Thank you for the clarification tho and for looking out for tamers.

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Author:	Blinkers [ Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I think the fact you try to say we can't tame in "static" housing is rediclous, when as CV says, quite a big amount of NPC's spawn in static housing... Some staff need to relax a bit, cos they are going to the point of making taming one of the WORST skills on the shard, when it's easily one of the most fun skills. If you're directly talking to me, I didn't write that rule. If you weren't talking to me then disregard this message.