Currently the kill/karma system in Obsidian is very specific. If you kill someone who is innocent you gain kills and lose karma. Once you lose enough karma you become red, once you gain enough kills (10) you become perma red and locked at -10000 karma. Kills decay very slowly.

You don't gain a kill count when you are defending yourself, the player is criminal, red or gray, or they AND you are of a non-neutral guild.

This has worked for sometime however there is a need to revamp this as of late and I would like to see what you guys think.

How should we deal with kill counts?

Have them Slowly Decay - A player would have no control over lowering their kill count and must wait for them to decay naturally overtime. This forces them to stop killing people if they wish to become blue again.

Allow a player to repent and remove kills by paying large sums of gold or stats - Players would only beable to lose kills by repenting at a local shrine. They would be given the option to pay huge sums of gold or lose stats and in-return they would lose a kill.

Remove kill counts and base the entire system off karma - Kill counts would be completely removed from the system. Players would become red only when their karma gets low enough.

Before I even start working on cleaning up the murder system I want to know what the majority of players would like. Please make sure to vote on what you like the best and the more comments the better. May the best option win!

Defnatly base it on karma, at least if runechamber is taken away from reds and as far as i know ive gotten kill counts even for killing members of chaos when i am order...

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Berzerkers of Flame [BoF]
Master Berzerker

I'd really like to see Karma play a bigger role in this shard. It was one of the things I liked most about the origional, and something I'd like to see more of here:)

How about making it possible for people to become poofers again?
I have come to this shard to play vs. monsters and have some fun. I did NOT come to see myself ketting gangbanged by 2-3 people or just one who is so much stronger than you that it?s not even a challange to him.

Why not make it possible for people to be "outside" the PvP system?
What if you could turn on *Poofing* again and then give up the possibility to attack other people?
I for one am sick and tired of not wanting to bring my best armor or best weapons if im going somewhere alone. Not because I could die and not be able to recover my things, but because some PK might be around the next cornor with a dual FS waiting for my ass.
If its possible to program it, then you should ofcourse leave a corpse if a monster kills you or else there would be too little penality for getting killed.

If you make it possible for people to be "outside" the PvP aspect of the game, then I see no problem in makig the murdercount dacay much faster, if there even has to be a penality for killing other people, cuz all there can be killed will have choosen to.
If you don?t find a way to leave innocent people out of the killings but make it easier for murderes to "cleanse" themselves, then you will have soo many "high lvl" people running around killing everything they see, just for the fun of it. I respect that you guys want to fight other people, but please leave all the n00bs, like me, out of it!

if murders decayed every 8 hours, and if -6k karma = red, and kill count 10 = red, it'd work real dandy. and to prevent newb murdering, every kill could get you -1,5k karma, so killing someone with 10k karma and looting them dry would result in like 5k karma loss, and newbies/craftsmen wouldn't be such an easy kill

First of all i would like to say that i'm amazed how much GM's listen to players and care about they oppinion (in comapre to some other agmes i have played). So SCREW all this whiners!
Now when i have that out of my system.
I'm kinda new to this game (3 months of playing with ALOT of different chars) so i guess i don't really know the game, but from what i have heard and seen i say that best olution is time decay (long one, but no too long) AND allow a player to repent and remove kills by paying large sums of gold or stats.
Why?
Well....with time decay (kill counter) you will stop people from killing newbies whenever they see em around, and with paying large sums of gold for removeing a kill, you will make those with ALOT of money spend it somewhere.
So..if i'm some lame player that wanna kill newbies i will have to pay ALOT of money to do so and not become red. So after some time i'm without of money and news are safe
And on the other hand if i'm baddas player that just wanna kill someone
if they piss me off i will have enough money to repent and not become red.
And karma...well...i don't really know how does it REALLY work so i can't speak about it, but as somone before me said it should play bigger role in murdering.
Hope you continue good work, and i appologize for bad English (i'm from Croatia, Europe)

i think the decay slowly method has its merits
there are people who pk as part of a guild war and not necessarily out of a need to kill players.
This way would allow them a balanced way to become blue again.

is there any way you could do something bout me and a few of the other victoms of this sudden change....it happent to rayne and a few others like me and her. Everything was fine, then all of a sudden i lost my 7500 karma, and it went down all the way to -10000....and just cuz i had 10 kills....but before this, i was able to be blue....it used to be if u had over 10 kills you'd go red, but u wouldn't lose all ur hard worked karma....i unno, just kind of a disapointment that im stuck where i am right now and no one can really help me......i didn't go on at all yesterday just cuz of the simple fact that i knew i couldn't do anything, and today i was barely on, plz get back to me, cuz i dont think that it was fare the way we were mislead here.....and then lost all our karma so if there anything anyone could do, plz pm me or something, i'm goin crazy....even when i try to gain karma, i come back on and it drops back down to -10000 since my kills are at 10, all i wanna do is go in town

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Zureese - GM flamestriker, hehe
Jake - Back up mage(until zur is fixed)
Seven - On his way, stacked stats (warrior)
Cleetus - GM tailor
Xzero - GM fisherman

I agree with Zur, i think we should either have the people start over new since it's a new karma system, or have something done, anyways im rather useless at the moment since im red and perma -10k karma lol.

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R.I.P Will A.K.A Affliction/Bush-Fire/Decayed-Stone - "Stoners live and stoners die. f*** it all, let's go get high"
You should either love me with a passion, or hate me to death..

Yeah half the shard is perma red. Also, basher poofing isn't the best thing when fighting monsters. I'd rather take the few seconds to res my hunting partner then wait for him to heal and come all the way back by which time I may be dead and without anyone attacking the monster will heal up.

we need red towns as well as neutral areas... simple as that. Lets face it.. theres alot of reds out there, might as well creat something for them. We cant shun the reds outa the cities.

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You be dead!

The third option is not so good,
a player with to low karma could just talk to his red friend, and the red friend would let him kill him so he turns blue at once again.
Ive seen this happen alot on the shard already.

But we need to make sure so chaos that kill order doesn't gain kill counts, and same for order that kill chaos.
But i think a order killing another Order should gain a kill, to get some meaning back to Order and Chaos.

Back in the days we had the slow kill count decay system, it worked really good.

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and like i said before....i think we should get some kind of a karma boost or something since we didn't know it was gonna happen....if i knew this was gonna happen i wouldn't have killed the last order guy that i killed....that put me with 10 kills :S sorry for complaining, but there is nothing i can do atm, and i will prolly be stuck like this for a long time if something isn't done, along with alot of other unfortunate players who had 10 kills when this system was put into affect

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Zureese - GM flamestriker, hehe
Jake - Back up mage(until zur is fixed)
Seven - On his way, stacked stats (warrior)
Cleetus - GM tailor
Xzero - GM fisherman

The slow decay method sounds good...The only thing is that if someone has seen "the errors of their ways" they have no chance of raising it back up. Maybe u could lower karma gains when a char is red or sumthin or maybe the more reds u kill the quicker the kill counts decay

I defently think having kills disovle over a period of time would be the best idea.

Having PKs pay to remove kills is gonna be pointless, money can be gained quickly if you know how, therefore Pking would not be that much of a big deal.
The same is with the karma idea, killing the correct monsters can get you up fast. So murders will be able to get away with it.
The idea of kills disovling away is kinda like people are forgetting your bad deeds, kinda fits more in with RP.