what we are saying is that we want poison pots to be as they were before. We dont want it the way it is.

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Deathwish
PuddleCakes

I understood what you said the first three times chips, and i'm running out of ideas on how to point out that you're missing it.
There has been NO CHANGE to the code governing poison potions hitting or being dodgable.
None.
Zilch.
Zip.
Nadda.
It is the EXACT same code from t3a.

The delay change was the time from when it hits and you're poisoned, to when the first bit of damage is taken.
It is NOT the delay from when the cloud is made and someone can get poisoned by it.
How it was was broken and rediculous, to the point that any pvp character without poisoning was at such a huge disadvantage that they could barely stand their own, let alone try to win fights. It is not going back to that, ever.

And as i mentioned before, i've changed NOTHING about poison potions. NOTHING AT ALL.
All i changed was how poison (the effect) works, meaning what happens AFTER someone gets poisoned. Not before, not during, but AFTER.
The stumbling, the dodging, etc is ALL THE SAME as it was in t3a. Exact same code, exact same bad variables, etc. I didn't even touch it to clean it up a bit.

Now i don't know how clear i can make it because some of you just seem hellbent to bitch about changes that never happened instead of being constructive.
Likewise the discussion of making poison potions "undodgeable" over the years has been brought up multiple times, even a big thread on it recently, and no one seemed to really want that, outside of a minority. If you want to try expound on the merits of undodgable potions and try to get that changed, go right ahead, suggest away and show how it's balanced. But using the logic that "it used to be that way and was fine" doesn't cut it around here, and never will, especially when it wasn't EVER like that.

I base changes on their discussion and merits, not how people think it was or how they think it should be. IF you can't backup your reasonings with logic/fact, then it'll never get any farther past my ears than a slight chuckle and maybe i'll waste some of my own time trying to give you hints on how to make your idea better. But honestly i have enough backlogged patches that need doing that i don't like spending a lot of time in discussion slike this because i'd rather have you all figure out what you want first, rather than have me have to handhold you through the process of figuring out what you want and how to make it balanced.

So as i said, if you want to make poisoning more powerful, find a drawback to go with it. Right now poison isn't the end all be all of pvp and that's a good thing.
If warriors need a fizzle to stand a chance against mages (which i really think is bs and have yet to see one fight that proves it neccessary), then start working out an innate ability and how it'll work/delays/etc. But keep in mind if warriors need a way to block a mages spells with skill, then mages should probably get a way to avoid that block or block warriors hits with skill as well. I'm not going to turn this into "warriors can make mages not cast anything higher than circle 4" just because warriors want it that way. Likewise I'm not going to reduce warriros to "stand in a 1x wall square and pound mage to death" or "mages wall warriors and field them to death " or "mages paralyze warriors and all3 charge up a fs". I'm appearing antiwarrior right now because the warriors are trying to take away most high level mage spells in pvp without a suitable drawback. If mages suggested a way tobe invulnerable to warrior hits for a time, i'd ask them what they're giving up in return as well.
My job in these discussions is 99% devils advocate. Just beacuse i find holes in your idea doesn't mean i like or dislike it, it just means i'm helping you work out the kinks by providing a viewpoint of what might not work. Yeah it makes me seem like an ass, and i apologize for that, but if i let in every idea i thought was neat without shooting it full of holes first, we'd end up with some pretty unbalanced stuff, such as the old race skills(berserk anyone?) or the old poisoning system. Neat, but overpowered to the point where everyone had to have them to succeed at pvp without working their ass off.

In the good old days this was called flaming or impolite to say the least. Direct the least of respect to your players as you expect towards yourself. Secondly, if you cannot handle criticism by arguing your way out of it and require infantile language, then you shall be treated in such a way too. It´s a question of reciprocity.

Back on topic.

Ok, so you´ve apparently introduced an item that makes recalling impossible. Great! Except that only one player has the skill to craft such an item, maybe two players. I won´t say who as not to cause an advertising campaign in my thread.

Nothing changed to the poison system? I suggest Chips posts the various PvP videos here and we can do exactly the same moves as on the video to prove your point. No work for you. It´ll be my pleasure to prove this point.

We are trying to make this shard as good as it used to be, but your hostility is not helping. You keep repeating that you do not require encouragement or etc, and that´s admirable, but a little less stubborness when everybody agrees on a point except you, would be much appreciated.

Attitude of mine? So be it. At least it is not offensive or disrespectful.
No comments, I´ll let the reader judge who speaks the truth.

Let´s be gentlemen, shall we?

Cheers,

_________________
Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

Being purposefully ignorant when someone takes the time to say something is much more disrespectful than a few syllables. Likewise, in the ellipses you so carefully edited, i pointed out the flaw in your ignorance and deconstructed your argument with logic. I merely called attention to your attitude because it is what ends up blinding you to the logic every time, and it is getting rather tiresome.

Politeness doesn't mean you cannot insult a person when they deserve it. For that is falsely showing respect and is an equal insult to both the person who does it and the person it is meant for. Politeness just means you do not insult someone unless they have deserved it, and only to the degree with which they have deserved it. The benefit of the doubt, if you will.

I stand by my statement that your attitude has blinded you to my words, and the fact that i've to correct you on multiple posts should be proof enough of that. I also stand by the statement that you purposefully misquote to alter the meaning of someone's statement, which is also rather insulting.

Likewise, calling me a liar is about as inulting as you can get. If I say i haven't touched the code, I haven't touched the code. I choose my words carefully, and you should do the same if you want to even attempt to throw ettiquette and misquote me. Accounts who have more than 5 hours playtime within the last month that could make the items? 7.
Again i point out that this item was mentioned several times in multiple threads and i believe earlier in this one, and shouldn't have needed attention called to it again. To feign ignorance like that is really insulting.
See again you misquote my words.
The poison system itself has changed.
What has not changed is the code that poison pots use to hit, to create the cloud, and to poison someone. Which is what 90% of the complaints i'm hearing are.


As i said before, if you have something constructive that isn't either "A. make poisoning overpowered agian", or "B. change pots to be nondodgable like they used to be (which is a lie)", then i'm welcome to hear it.
If you want to say make them undodgable because now mages can do xxx which makes it unfair to warriors, sure.
But just because warriors have to fight a little harder doesn't mean it's neccessarily unfair. Right now i'm hearing around 60% bitching from mage and 40% bitching from warriors, which means it's almost a balanced system. Because you will never here a day when both sides think the system is balanced, not while the internet is still around for people to complain about.


Now if you're done attempting to assassinate my character, can you contribute something useful to the discussion?I've given what information i can on what the system was, how it is, what changed, why it changed, and what changes aren't likely + the reasons they aren't likely. So start working with it to come up with something.

Alright Bob! This is my opinion, I think the poison the way it is IS fine, because you arent nforced to take the skill to be good at PVP, but the only thing I think poison pots should do ! is automatically fizzle RECALL. Mages and warriors can use p pots, and i think itd be smart in my opinion. From what I heard teh item only lasts a minute, so Id have to carry like 5 to be able to fight someone. If i catch someone in the wilderness they might just recall away without me having time to plae it on the floor, and then I have to place another one and another one.In my opinion, poison is fine as it is right now, its just balancing the recall.

"The delay change was the time from when it hits and you're poisoned, to when the first bit of damage is taken."
ok some ideas-



ok, is it possible that t3a's sync/ timer/ coding was off so that it was instant?

can it also be true that maybe the pots were different from t3a to t4a, in all timers

for example, when we moved to t4a, the old poison pots didn't have the same timer, and we had to wait like 30 seconds if you had a 'old' potion, but a new scripted potion was normal timer...
can it be the same effect? the changing of the effect of timers on t3a vs t4a?

just throwing out ideas....

ok or can we ask azi for his notes? like lol, he said he kept timing notes and such in the old system.. they would be really appreciated...

It can't be group thinking, because i remeber specific instances when i used p pots to fizzle....

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king of the run on sentence.

Have you tried pvp lately? With GM anatomy becoming almost a manditory skill as it heals + increase dmg and res with a slight healing reduction as a consequence (apposed to old 60% anatomy) pvp is very slow. To kill anyone you need to smuther them with poison. Spells are too slow to kill your average warrior without poison. If u can stay logged on that is.
That wouldnt be the case. Providing he knows what hes doing, a mage could stick to lower spells until poisoned before larger spells. The warrior may wait till the mage casts a larger spell before using poison. In that case the mage could stick to lower spells to stay away from poison. These are just 2 examples of the many skill tactics that will come to play with poison pots landing on their targets. This system would require skill which is what your looking for and better pvp.

As for you not wanting to have to rely on 1 large aspect to pvp you contradict yourself. We are all to use the anti-recall stone? seems a lot like what we are trying to avoid. This is not to say i dont appreciate the anti recall stones but it shouldnt be mandatory. The new system of poisoning would eliminate that by the ability to counter recall.

You aim to make skills not required for pvp but thats what you have done. Anatomy has made poison mandatory, you cant out damage a players healing without poison. I say we make this change to poison and increase the casting speed for most spells to balance (if necessary).

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Deathwish
PuddleCakes

I do not agree with this stopping recall item either sounds stupid to me. Fizzling recall should be based on skill not on who you know or figuring out what skill makes what and then making something

i agree with belg,
that takes all the skill out of it, and just says
hey if u know the right people / happen to luckily have a skill / have enough money, u can throw these down each minute and not worry about escape,,

thats not cool., i like something that would require some sort of skill...

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king of the run on sentence.

I dont mind the anti recall if we can poison aswell but please create a new thread for this it's discussion. Still waiting for your response bob

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Deathwish
PuddleCakes

Still waiting for your response bob

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Deathwish
PuddleCakes

If you read what he already has posted he gives you responses to why poison is what it is.

No.

Deathwish pointed out a contradiction in Bob´s argument, in which case Bob will surely expand upon, or admit to the fallacy.

_________________
Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

I think you've completely lost your own logic when trying to counter mine
Anatomy was already a required, or at least very useful addition to healing. All i did was make it not get worse after 60.
Really? Because that just sounds to me like a mage can't cast any higher level spells till the warrior decides he can. A warrior who never throws a pot forces a mage to never cast anything higher than circle 4 or 5 without being fizzled by a decent warrior.
Here you start to lose logic. I said i don't want people required to gm one SKILL, not one aspect. The recall blockers are no different than stonewall potions, yet another limited use skill in the form of an item that anyone can get. Your reply is to then once again state that poisoning should get the ability back, which it will NOT get because that then makes poisoning a required ksill.
If people can outheal, that means healing needs to be adjusted, which i've been debating for awhile, its just taken awhile to come up with balanced options. See a similar thread i put up earlier today about that very fact.

I would have to disagree with most of this. Lesser poison counters GM anat, making it so every time they heal its only half effective. If a warrior has under 60 anat they dont have to worry about that but have less effective healing, and they will take more dmg from poison. I think its fine the way it is, with my mage i dont have any problems killing dexers with GM anat, or less, or high str warriors. Healing does NOT need to be nerfed, it would screw the warriors over and the mages and tanks even worse.

Bob, if you want i will gladly PvP any warrior for testing.