I've been rolling in my head how to deal with the annoying randomness of shoving in the new system, and the fact that the monster AI almost never quite understands how to shove, so that monsters rarely group in one tile while players do it all the time.

Well, the idea i hit on is what if we just removed shoving entirely.
Bear me out, this isn't a cop-out idea:

No living thing can occupy the space of any other living thing, or pass through them, unless one of them is invis or stealthed.
This way you can still sneak around people if youare sneaky, but for 99% of situations, a person is a solid wall.

This means that big fights will now be a lot different, as such a 5v5 could conceptually block off a bridge in people. Likewise monster fights will gain a different dynamic.

I realize this is a huge change, i've done the playtesting i can on it and i think it can work out for the better, so i want you all to try it ouf or a week and we'll see how it ends up.

Make sure to leave your comments and discuss. Changelog for other details

Bob

P.S. Today's boss is beastly knight, he's a bottom of the dungeon boss so he is hard, be careful. But if you beat him you may get his beastly mace.

Perhaps make the shoving of a person aside a temporary thing as it would be in real life?

What I mean is: Once a character shoves the other and steps on the same square, he has a timer of 3 seconds to move from it before a pushback is done and he is put back where he started. Or perhaps once the timer is up, the player turns hostile against the one he stepped into.

Making it so a player cannot push another aside is begging to be abused. Imagine running from a PKer or two and when you are about to reach the dungeon door, it is blocked by a few others. Just makes it alot harder for pvm and crafters. Of course your crafter could just kill them and move through

Perhaps, when you take over someone's space, both players get a debuff of stamina, and all fighting skills...as being too close would effect your fighting skills. Once you step off of the square the debuff is removed.

Would it effect animals as well? Cannot pass by them without killing them? That means players can line animals up to line a door lol...and then what about if a golem shadows on you and you are pinned in? Only chance is to kill it or slip by it. Good luck lol.

I know you said try it for a week, but really, what good is trying it now? The shard is empty of any kind of circumstance that might actually cause problems...eg players.

Oh! Then you get the players that block shops' doors and will not move. Then you try and force them to move...haha, they call guards. I have seen this on another shard. It just got retarded.

I am all for giving a chance to things....but I dunno about this at all.


ps. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your hard work on everything. I just disagree is all.

Nah, they're all good points.

As i said, i wanna try it out and see what people can find wrong with it and if that can be fixed.

The shops, for instance, we can fix by allowing shoving inside of towns.
The pk situations you described is actually kinda what i was going for. It gives warriors ways to block poeple and reasons to hunt in packs. It's also no different than a mages spell or a potion stonewall in that respect, except it's mobile.

Anyway keep talking all, i wanna hear everyone's thoughts good or bad

Im almost positive we have had something like this before and most if not all players didnt like it.
The main thing i hated was when hunting somewhere like a graveyard or hauntedhill where you get surrounded you cant get out... a noob has no chance of getting away if he/she is surrounded by skeletons. Same if someone was to tame animals and put them where the rune chamber takes you, You couldnt get out it would be a pain in the ass.
If your in a gank it means u have no chance of getting away and I think if your being ganked u should beable to get away. Some ppl get lucky and escape walls and ganks but with this its making it pker friendly and harder for pvm/crafters/wanderers.

In the dungeon, a mage can dispel a stone wall....but not the people standing there. Since gate weps do not work in dungeons anymore...if the way is blocked by several players, then you are stuck running around lol.

Brings me to a suggestion as a side thought: Dispel potions. Perhaps make them from a rarer reg, kindof like ettin caps or the like. Maybe limit the dispel to walls? I dunno, haven't thought it through.

Did a little testing today.


Went to a vendor shop and bought something the vendor liked to stand right infront of the door for about 2 min.

And also a group of like 5 lets say could stand around the area where people poof from rc and not let move.

Got in a good 3vs3 today and with the bears running around and the other 5 people i barly had any moving room.

And it would suck to me a miner or a fisher tring to train and a group of pricks isit leeting you train.

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Shadow Hunter [Outkastz]
Hemlock [Outkastz]
Shadow [GWAR]

bad idea,really, really, bad idea. last time this was tried on obsidian it ran most of the player base off. luckily it was fairly quickly changed back. you guys are doing a great job but throw this idea out it makes the gameplay really not fun.


i hardly even log on any more but i still want you to realize just how terrible this idea is, i honestly cant think of anything that would make the shard suck worse than removing shoving. it just isnt obsidian like that. in fact i will go as far to say that you guys need to do everything in your power to make sure that shoving stays as is. forget what the monsters do, forget realism or what makes sense, no shoving = people will not have fun = they wont log in- thx for reading.

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LOV FOR LIFE

Admittedly, I have not tried it out....but someone mentioned skeletons in a GY...I have a bad connection, and I lag a LOT, so it's not uncommon for me to have to take a few hits before my internet catches up and I can react.....more often then not, that reaction is running through critters to save my life.

.....I think it's a bad idea for PvM

I think it's a good idea for PvP, but there needs to be a counter action to it (does teleport and precasting work in dungeons?)


in all honesty, I think the shard is hard enough as it is....this is already the hardest shard I have ever seen, and I'd be willing to bet it's the hardest in existence....there's a point when difficulty outweighs entertainment

We had 6 people and about 4 bears in that 3vs3 today and I could barly walk around i was getting pissed off.

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Shadow Hunter [Outkastz]
Hemlock [Outkastz]
Shadow [GWAR]

This has never been tried on obsidian, so i dunno where ya'll are getting that.
t3a couldn't do it, and t4a hasn't tried it.

Here's how the old systems worked:
t3a: Could shove as long as you had enough stamina(20 i think).
t4a: Can't shove unless you have full stamina
T4a currently: Can't shove.

The best i can do, concievably currently, is put it back at the can't shove unless full stamina.
I can't put it back at t3a(without changing clients) because the current client doesn't attempt to shove unless you have full stamina, so it never hits the server so we can tell it yes or no.

So here's my question, since a lot of people are looking at this as an "all or nothing" situation. It's not. It's "the current system is really abritrary, i can't put it back to t3a, so instead lets make it work to our advantage".

Look at it in parts.

What times do you think it should be possible to shove?
What times shouldn't it?

Should players be able to shove any other player all the time?
Or maybe just in towns/safe zones?
Or maybe if they have higher str?

What about monsters, should they stack?
Maybe only 2 monsters in a tile?

Like i said, don't work on it as a yay or nay problem, look at it as "How do you want it, what parts do you want and how should they work"

Why are we even making this an issue? Leave shoving like it has been and let's concentrate on making the playerbase more than 10 people?

i think not shoving at all kinda kill the game-play, it get very frustrating to be stuck between 2 skelly and a sheep with 160 str and telling yourself '' like if a damn sheep could prevent me from moving''
i definitely thing str should have something to do with it.. anybody with 50 str or more should be able to take a step over a slime a bird and a snake..

lots of things with obs ''make sens'' as in ''if it was real.. it could work about like that'' but when a zomby and a spider cant prevent a 300 str poly mage to make their way trough coveteous.. it make much less sens,

i could see stamina being involved, perhaps not as a 99% stam = no chance, 100 stamina = 100% chance, but maybe more like a smoothly rounded up system as you know well how to do

(%chance to shove) = (stam/2 + str/2) - (50 if overload) - ((monster level -2) *50)

so if you have 130 str 130 dex have full stam and are not over laoded and trying to go trough :

a slime, you get 130% chance of success
a drake, you get (lets say its level 4?) you get 30% chance
but then if you stam is lower, lets say empty, you get 0% chance

or if you got a poly mage with 320 str and full 80 stamina,

and try to go trough
-a drake you get 100% but every 2% stamina less then full remove u 1% chance if you do the math..
-a skeleton king (lets say its level 6?) will get you 0% chance to shove it
but if you bless yourself and get to 330/100 , you then get 15% if full stamina..

of course it would not be balanced with these numbers.. but im just showing the idea

as for between player.. i think it should be about the same idea but as a str compare thing

(%chance to shove) = (stam/2 + str/2) - (50 if overload) - (person u try to shove (STR*2)/3)
so if not loaded 100 % stam and facing a same str as u opponent you would and 2 chance out of 3 to get away.. but the more the str diff increase to harder or easier it is
(( 4 deamons surrounding a raptor = raptor not likely to walk away (because daemons are strong and have long arms)))
((( 4 raptor surrounding a hemoknight,= i think it make sens that the strong warrior can fight his path trough some guyz)))

player < walls

as of using stealth to go trough other ppl and monster.. i think its kinda silly as using steath isnt making you disappear or go invisible, it hide you.. so it should not make any difference when some one(visible or stealth) try to walk over a person, but of course a stealthed person would be an easy thing to shove out of the way,

bob i bet you probably are like 110/120/220 irl even tho its overcap
but a sure thing is,, if 4 birds where to surround you you would definitely figure a way to make a step forward

sorry for the long post, i tried to keep it ''''simple''''

(((( but yeah 1000% agree with apoc on that one.. lets shove some new player in here))))

Peace
MaG

I think most would agree that it really sucks that we can't just have it the way it was in t3a. Also, that limitation might prevent you from doing something like this, but at any rate here are my thoughts:
When you have enough stamina to shove.
When you do not.
No, if they have a low stamina compared to the strength of the person or monster they are trying to shove, the shove should fail.
I don't see the need for different "shove code" in the towns with a system like this. You could always tweak the script if it generates problems.

* The formula for (your stamina) vs (opponents strength) could be relatively simple. If your opponent has say 10-30 strength, you only need at least 15 stamina. If your opponent has 100 strength, you'll need at least say 75 stamina.

* At full stamina, no matter what your strength, you should be allowed one shove of any player or monster around you... while taking a huge stamina drop, preventing you from further shoving.

* All shoves should cause some stamina loss, to prevent constant shoving and to reflect realistic fatigue.

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Ultima avatar: The Famed JIZABOZ,GWAR Guildmeister

personally i think this is the wrong type of mmo for this type of no shoving... because realistically if im on a horse with a spear or what have you and im riding at a person on foot im pushing him outa the way and possibly stabbing the shiat outa him... i say put it back to the way it was to begin with in t4a, i always thought that shoving with super low stam in t3a made it a bit to easy for ppl to get away or for me to get away

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Johnny Mother f***** Cash

I enjoyed the full stamina rule:)